club brew stand process

[beermikester]

+1, Bob. Couldn't agree more.

Mike

[Kally]

Good and bad, dues are not our biggest income for the club. People brewing, volunteering their time for festivals, and competitions are the main things. We don't need new members by the case and frankly, until we make more changes to the club (different discussion from here), we are membership limited at about 200 for a number of reasons.

The treasury/legality discussion with our club's status is best kept at the meetings- Suffice it to say that funding for this is not an issue and we may hit a wall of "use it or lose it".

Our main base is more than "apartment kitchen" members. I am all for getting new people into brewing and we very much appreciate new members and perspectives into the club. We don't need to overly cater to this group. That's really the job of Dave at STLW&B. We are at no risk of losing the capability to showcase or educate about a "simple" brew setup with a club owned brew rig.

Bob asked "who will take care of it"? - I use the example of the jockey boxes because I've been working those. I house them and maintain them. They've been working out fantastic for the club. I don't think we'll have a problem with someone volunteering to house a brew rig. We will have to work out what to do about getting it for events and brew days. There can be a benefit for the person who hosts it, just like there is sometimes an extra benefit for housing the jockey boxes (they are conveniently available for me to use when no one else is), but I also spend a fair amount of time maintaining them (cleaning, sanitizing, fixing parts) and organizing hand-offs/pickups of the boxes. So it's a tradeoff.
We have some members who go far and above to make our festivals great. People brew 25-30+ gallons. Allowing those people access to a club rig, when it's not needed for festivals, would be a great way to reward them for their hard work. It also can make brewing for the festivals a lot easier.

I really like the idea of a brew-club clubhouse. We would need someone to volunteer that or the club would have to find cheap rent space. This would be a great opportunity to team up with a brewery...or a shriners...or something that works out.

Since it is mobile, the "club house" could move around. We setup a pavilion and brew for places like itap, STLW&B, etc on the weekends. It's a lot more motivating to brew with others when it's easy. Ideas...

My main takeaway here is that this does not have to be focused on getting new members. This can be something for our current members - those who have worked hard to raise money for the club. If we make the club something that WE want to be a part of, then that atmosphere will attract others.

[bmock]

My thoughts.

- A decision needs to be made on intent. Are we making this as a bonus for members who choose not to pay for one of these themselves OR are we trying to attract potential new homebrewers? If you look at our mission statement, I feel it should be as an attractant.

- If my first statement is true, then a simpler rig may be the correct bait. When I look at a Brutus system, I am not interested. I don't want to turn a key and have beer. My car works well for that. Show me a person that makes good beer with a cooler, buckets and fire and I'm impressed.

- If the second statement is followed, there isn't a need for a rig, per say. One could still be used, but wouldn't be necessary by any means.

- I love the idea of having professionally made signage to show the stage of the brew. I'm thinking a way to hang poster size boards that have the club logo and "MASH", "SPARGE", "BOIL", "CHILL", etc. on them.

- If not a poster hanger, maybe someone to hold them up during the demo?

[tedon_63126]

removed comment

[JoeHPhil]

Points are all good - but before this devolves into questioning why someone wants to do this I will say the idea has great merit as a component project where the club is involved in the build.

I see sometimes these events other clubs have where a coordinated build of wort chillers, keggles, etc or coordinated brew sessions where they fill a barrell and I am excited to be involved.

I think several brewers like the equipment part as much as the beer part of the hobby. For me, besides an obvious cash limitation I have a skill/tool limitation as well. I would absolutely love to perhaps have one week were we get together and build a RIMS system and those participating can bring their own parts while the person demonstrating can work on the club owned unit. Next time perhaps someone else does a whirlpool process in a keggle and so on until a complete system is built (which I have no idea what we do with it then, maybe even auction it unless we have a sponsor that it goes to).

I make good beer that I want to make better and more consistant. The meetings can only do so much to educate in the formats they are in. Extra opportunities like this and the proposed judging classes make my membership worth it to me, besides the comaraderie of course.

In that sense I thank Kally for bringing it up and allowing us all to participate in the discussion.

[siwelwerd]

The treasury/legality discussion with our club's status is best kept at the meetings- Suffice it to say that funding for this is not an issue and we may hit a wall of "use it or lose it".

Yes, the best time and place for all discussions regarding spending large sums of the club's money is the last five minutes of each meeting, when half of the room has de-facto started porch time and the other half is looking around to see what fine beers our generous hosts donated this time.

We just agreed to buy a firkin for no other reason than "Hey, that would be cool!" It seems to me that this is a similar proposal on a scale 10-20 times greater.

[Witch Doctor Dale]

Points are all good - but before this devolves into questioning why someone wants to do this I will say the idea has great merit as a component project where the club is involved in the build.

I see sometimes these events other clubs have where a coordinated build of wort chillers, keggles, etc or coordinated brew sessions where they fill a barrell and I am excited to be involved.

I think several brewers like the equipment part as much as the beer part of the hobby. For me, besides an obvious cash limitation I have a skill/tool limitation as well. I would absolutely love to perhaps have one week were we get together and build a RIMS system and those participating can bring their own parts while the person demonstrating can work on the club owned unit. Next time perhaps someone else does a whirlpool process in a keggle and so on until a complete system is built (which I have no idea what we do with it then, maybe even auction it unless we have a sponsor that it goes to).

I make good beer that I want to make better and more consistant. The meetings can only do so much to educate in the formats they are in. Extra opportunities like this and the proposed judging classes make my membership worth it to me, besides the comaraderie of course.

In that sense I thank Kally for bringing it up and allowing us all to participate in the discussion.

I like your idea of a club build, but why on the club dime. If you don't have the skills/tools to get something you want, buy the stuff, have club experts put it together, others can buy and build along side, everyone walks home with what they want, why have the club own one?

[Kally]

Well, the thread which is supposed to be about a club owned rig process has devolved into the IF question. There should be a different thread to discuss how the club should spend $3k-$5k within the next year. It's not really a matter of IF we spend this money, team, it's down to HOW. The club needs to shed capital.


To discuss your opinion on how to spend club funds:
http://stlbrews.org/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?p=21754#21754

[JoeHPhil]

I like your idea of a club build, but why on the club dime. If you don't have the skills/tools to get something you want, buy the stuff, have club experts put it together, others can buy and build along side, everyone walks home with what they want, why have the club own one?

Point taken Dale - I was thinking of it like the old fashioned auto shop at the high school I went to. You started a course with a beater car the school provided and when complete the school auctioned it to recoup the initial cost. Everyone wins.

I don't care how and am not afraid of paying for my own stuff. I am also not averse to building a modest inventory of club tools/stuff assuming the members get access and use of it easily. I just want a venue to learn to do things I currently am not close to. This is not one sided, if I can help by demonstrating how I built my manual HERMS or brew stand, grainmill, mash paddle, or other wood working thing I'm happy to. I doubt anyone here needs excel or access applications built, but if it is a work item I am willing to share what I can.

That's all I meant

[astx813]

Yes, the best time and place for all discussions regarding spending large sums of the club's money is the last five minutes of each meeting, when half of the room has de-facto started porch time and the other half is looking around to see what fine beers our generous hosts donated this time.

FWIW, our meetings often remind me of our weekly chapter meetings back in my fraternal days. One thing we did back then that prevented this from being an issue was that new business wasn't voted on at the meeting it was introduced at. So to have a vote on doing a club build, it would be presented at one meeting and immediately tabled until the next meeting. Since we only meet once a month, that's probably too much of a delay, but we can at least try to go that direction. For example, say that new business needs to be submitted (to the President?) 2 weeks in advance, and that the agenda will be included in the newsletter. That way the members have time to look into what we'll be voting on.

Just .02...

[beermikester]

It's not really a matter of IF we spend this money, team, it's down to HOW. The club needs to shed capital.

I definitely don't want to start/continue a public thread on club finances. But I thought I made it clear at the last meeting that there are no restrictions on the balance of our account, only on amount of income and on the percentage of revenue that comes from non-members. We are NOT in a position of having to spend money. We should only do so if the opportunity is right and would be a good use of funds.

[JoeHPhil]

Thanks Mike -

That is what I understood as well. If we have any concern at all it is ensuring the source of our money has the regulated spread of member vs non-member.

[Mike C-Z]

I agree that the forum isn't the right place for this discussion, but I just want to share what I took away from talking to Kally at the last meeting.

As I understand it, the funds for this build would come from a non-member source. It is a use it or lose it scenario because we are nearing the max allowable that we can receive from non-members. If they don't pay for the build - or something else - then we can't collect what they owe. I don't pretend to understand all the nuances of how this would work (gift of materials vs. cash payment), however, I think the proposal was made so we can somehow collect what is owed us, and maintain our tax-exempt status.

Hopefully Kally can chime in and correct me if I'm wrong.

Maybe it's time to take a close look at where our non-member funds are coming from, and have the club drop out of something if necessary, or at least figure out creative alternatives to payments - if this problem is likely to continue.

[bmock]

There is no such thing as spending non-member income to avoid issues.

It's still income.

It's like winning a million dollars and to avoid paying taxes, you blow it all on hookers and blow.

The government is still going to want the taxes regardless.

[RobertHSmith]

creative alternatives to payments - if this problem is likely to continue

I think we should consider this...