club brew stand process

[Kally]

Let's get the discussion going for how a club brew stand would be managed. For this thread, please focus on topics related to HOW to manage a rig and not IF this is the right acquisition for the club. We need to get an idea of how this would work first.

Key topics are:
Where to store?
Who manages the equipment?
Maintenance/repairs
Cleaning
Reservations

[JoeHPhil]

OK - Since we aren't quite to the why here are some things I thought of...

1) transportation - If it does not have a permanent home, we need to think about portability, ramps to get it in a truck if needed, as well as listing any power requirements

2) security - people who bring it home need a place to secure it. Leaving it in the driveway overnight won't do

3) Public brew demos - We could build it really cool with all the gadgets but that might prove to turn people at a demo off. Maybe we could build a brew demo 'kit' of household wrangled items so as not to frighten away any prostective brewers and their funding personnel. If I had to sell my with the idea of brewing with 500-1000 dollars of eventual equipment I might not be brewing now, but the startup of $100 plus some kitchen gadgets made it a bit more reasonable

4) Education - I know I'd love to learn all the cool stuff about PID's and process management. Perhaps we can parse the building into classroom sessions where participants can actually learn how to do this stuff.

[Kally]

wow, that's a great point - this could be seen as somewhat of a product/technology demonstrator for the manufacturers. We are certainly much more accessible to the typical homebrewer than a large manufacturer. I've found that you can build a lot of things, but by the time it's all put together, you sometimes spend as much as just buying an engineered product in the first place.

I agree with the household parts approach being potentially friendlier to intro's, but we've all done that. This should try to be as much a learning experience for the experienced brewer as the beginner. I think it could be broken down simply with the right display setup. Perhaps the more important factor is SAFETY. The household stuff approach may not be appropriately safe for festival demos. A well designed system with pumps and controls could be run very safely.

[jay8s]

I like the mild to wild idea. A bare bones homemade version with a price break down to show wanna to be brewers how it can be done, and then a top of the line one to show just how far you can take it.

[Kally]

we should make sure a build is well documented, photographed, etc so everyone gets max education out of it.

[RobertHSmith]

As long as I can still batch sparge with it I'm going to be able to use it. Direct fired is fine as long as it's propane. Remember this thing has to be portable, which means it should either fit in the back of a small truck or should be easily disassembled.

For a club, I would do a 3 tier, tree design. 2 burners, 1 10gal water cooler. No need for a pump that way.

[beermikester]

I agree with the idea of keeping it simple. We should have a 5 gallon system, since that is what most homebrewers would start out with. My personal feeling is that the mash tun should be based on a cooler, again since that is what most homebrewers start with. And the burners should be propane fired.

As far as whether it is gravity fed or uses a pump, it might be nice to have a system that could run either way. We may or may not always have electricity at the location we are brewing. So in those cases, we would want the system to work with gravity. But the pump option would be nice when electricity is available.

To go along with the brewing equipment, it would be nice to have a pictorial display of the brewing steps. These should be done professionally, on poster-sized board. We should also have available for display fresh grain, fresh hops, a grain mill, a chiller, the chemicals needed for sanitation, and other pieces of equipment needed.

I think the purpose of this system shouldn't be to show how good we are at homebrewing. It should be to show non-brewers how easy and fun it is to get into the hobby.

Mike

[astx813]

To go along with the brewing equipment, it would be nice to have a pictorial display of the brewing steps. These should be done professionally, on poster-sized board.

Maybe something like this poster from The Oatmeal? (Here's an excerpt)

[Kally]

I like that poster. Good discussion on simple vs fancy. The goals of the rig should be well vetted out. Most of us have a "simple" rig that is relatively easy to bring to a festival for demos. An attractive aspect of a club rig is that we can take advantage of our collective capital to bring brewing methods (and equipment) that is not normally available to members. For example, this brings options to run dual pumps, fly sparging, whirlpools, step mashes, advanced cooling methods, temperature regulated controls, and other things done in a professional brewery. Some of this stuff can be done at home, but it is often quite labor intensive to do it. That takes away talking time with the public.

A two pump system is easily ran with a single pump if one fails.
A 3 tier system seems to fix the electricity issue. It's a huge pain to brew where there isn't a water line. How many places do we brew where there isn't water and electricity? And in those cases, we could say that this isn't the rig for that demo.
My concerns/questions with a 3 level vertical rig - how easy is that to transport? It's pretty large right? What are the safety tradeoffs there? You have to either lift hot water to your Hot liquor tank or pump it in there anyways.
It is harder to see what's going on in a 3 tier system vs a horizontal 3 tun (brutus like) setup.

Do we want this rig to be able to support club brewing projects? For example, we could brew 20 gallon collaborative batches for multiple secondary conditionings (different dry hop, yeast, etc). Also, a larger batch size would help get beer ready for festivals.

The speed of the entire process should be considered. A faster brewing setup makes demos a lot easier to work during fests. That's a big advantage of some level of automated controls.

[beermikester]

Again, it should be decided by the club as to what the purpose of this rig is. If it is to entice people into our hobby, then I believe the rig should show people how they can get into the hobby by either making or buying simple equipment. On the other hand, if the purpose is to show people that we really know our stuff and there isn't much difference between us and a professional brewery, then we should go all out.

In my opinion, though, if people want to see professional brewing equipment, they can arrange a tour at almost any of the microbreweries in the area and get that. But if they want to see how the brewing processes used by the big boys can be scaled down to allow them to brew beer at home, then a much simpler rig should be built for demonstration purposes. On the other hand, if the purpose of the rig is for us to brew more beer for the members, then that would introduce a totally different type of rig - one that can handle bigger batches.

So what do we want this for?

[someone]

here ya go its a deal

http://stlouis.craigslist.org/bfs/2555513155.html

[Witch Doctor Dale]

I'm not sure if anyone has researched the cost of this as of late. Looking at years old Brutus ten builds is not accurate. We have researched this very project several times at Brewhemoth headquarters (I think Josh wants the prototype for his very own) and the cost of the steel alone will floor you. That being said, I have the facilities, equipment, and welder to build this "prototype", if the club purchases the material, we build it and use the prototype in our advertising schemes. Thinking we should make it a half barrel system and the club also purchase a Brehemoth to ferment in, then we can fill our firkin and dispence with the Brewhemoth version of the Beer Engine.

[JoeHPhil]

Dale,

I'm not sure the Brewhemoth can close the loop yet - Have you guys a product in development that allows us to transport the finished beer product from the beer engine to our mouths? Like a giant stainless steel pub glass?

Seriously, I love the brew rig idea. I think we are lacking a purpose and a process.

If we had a permanent location where we had adequate access, fermentation space, and utilities (namely a clubhouse) than a cadillac of a brew rig would make a lot of sense and I'd be all for it. If we don't I worry about it's transportation damage.

If our intent is to gain new brewers, that would likely do more harm than good. I'd then think we make a 'you can do this in your apartment kitchen' version, but make it really pretty with labels and signage for the steps. Unlimited envisioning has me seeing a trailer with actual kitchen cabinets on it and an electric range. The smallness of the trailer makes the point that they can do this at home.

I really like the idea of both for a demo. Perhaps some signs with comparisons including a case cost of the beer by a stove-top extract to an all-grain.

So - are we trying to increase our members or just get more beer for festivals or what?

[Witch Doctor Dale]

I agree having something like this for brewing demos won't pull in many new brewers, a plastic bucket for a fermenter would bring in more new people. I'm not sure why...but this is a logistics discussion.

[Bob Brews]

Personally, I have always been very hesitant to promote something like this for ownership by the club. First of all, lets look at the price. If made correctly (stainless steel frame, on wheels, with pumps, sized for 10 gallon batches, controllers) we are looking at a price of materials and parts in the $3000 to $5000 range. Unless of course someone has a good source of cheap or free equipment (and this is if we have free welding). So with dues at $25, that means that it will take the dues of 120 to 200 people to pay for the brewery. We better get folks joining by the case every time we get this thing out!

Secondly, who will take care of it? Will it be the property of the club or will it be in someones garage for them to use until we need it for an event? - Sounds like we are just buying someone a brewery that we are allowed to use. What happens when there is an event and the keeper of the brewery is out of town? Do we just loose the opportunity to get those dozens of people from joining? We have trouble finding someone to store our cardboard beer boxes, and now we want someone to store a brewery?

If we are really trying to get people into the hobby - the set up should be as down and dirty and cheap as possible. A single pot and a cajun cooker. Folks can understand that and you can show them that you can brew at home with the things you have on hand. Otherwise, you are just showing folks a race car when you are trying to get them to learn how to drive.

Just my thoughts.