Witbier

[turkeyjerky214]

Witbier:

Amount Item Type % or IBU
4.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row)
4.50 lb Wheat, Flaked
1.00 oz Goldings, East Kent (60 min)
0.75 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min)
0.75 oz Orange Peel, Bitter (Boil 5.0 min)
1 Pkgs Belgian Wit Ale (White Labs #WLP400) Yeast-Wheat

Est Original Gravity: 1.047 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.011 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.7 %
Bitterness: 17.0 IBU Calories: 209 cal/pint
Est Color: 4.0 SRM

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body Total Grain Weight: 9.00 lb
Sparge Water: 2.14 gal Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 72.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Mash In Add 11.25 qt of water at 165.9 F Step Temp: 154.0 F Step Time: 60 min
Mash Out Add 6.30 qt of water at 196.6 F Step Temp: 168.0 F Step Time: 10 min


Anyone following my other thread knows I've been having some problems with my mash/sparge. I was going to go skiing, but I can't find my gloves, so I figured I'd brew instead.

I'm not quite sure I understand this mash schedule. I'm reading it as I'm supposed to add 2.8 gal. (11.25 qt) at the start at around 166º so it equalizes to 154º. Then after 50 minutes, add another 1.5 gal. (6.3 qt.) at 196.6º so it equalizes to 168º.

Then I'm supposed to sparge with 2.14 gal. @ 168º.

To me, this seems like not nearly enough water, but it is about half grain bill than my last few brews.

This website, http://www.brew365.com/mash_sparge_water_calculator.php on the other hand, is telling me to do something completely different.

It's telling me I need to mash with 3 gal. and sparge with 5 gal.


Any idea on which one to go with?

[SteveO]

The first recipe is generated by... ?

Does it account for all the losses (absorption, tun heat loss, boil loss, etc?)


Both water estimates seem pretty reasonable for a 5 gallon batch. If I had to err on one side or the other, I'd rather have more wort to deal with than not enough.

[turkeyjerky214]

Here's where I found the recipe:
http://www.brew-monkey.com/recipes/html/wit.htm

I'm not worried about the amount of wort really. It's the gravity I'm worried about (most specifically the mash). As long as I get that right, this could be a 6 gallon batch for all I care.

[bmock]

This website, http://www.brew365.com/mash_sparge_water_calculator.php on the other hand, is telling me to do something completely different.

It's telling me I need to mash with 3 gal. and sparge with 5 gal.


Any idea on which one to go with?

I use the second method with good results. If you wanted, you could split the sparge in 2 parts and use 2.5 gal for each for even better rinsing.

[Lynux]

Do yourself a favor and buy a copy of beersmith. It's only $20 and it's incredibly accurate and worth it.

I don't trust the numbers from the free software.

[turkeyjerky214]

I actually am probably going to be going with Beer Tools Pro. I like the interface a lot more, and with Beersmith, I have to restart and boot to my Windows partition.

This website, http://www.brew365.com/mash_sparge_water_calculator.php on the other hand, is telling me to do something completely different.

It's telling me I need to mash with 3 gal. and sparge with 5 gal.


Any idea on which one to go with?

I use the second method with good results. If you wanted, you could split the sparge in 2 parts and use 2.5 gal for each for even better rinsing.

I think I'm gonna go with this. I also adjusted my grain mill for a little bit finer mill. Last weekend's seemed like a lot of grains were falling through without getting milled.

Getting ready to heat the strike water now, so I'll be sure to post how everything goes.

[siwelwerd]

The first step in computing water volumes is to pick a grist ratio. If you go with 1.25 qts/lb, you get the 11.25 qts. At 1.33 qts/lb, you get the 12L. Either is fine, but it will help you dial in your system if you pick one and stick with it. I would omit the additional infusion for the mashout step. You will lose somewhere in the range of 1-1.5 gallons to grain absorption (I would guess closer to 1.5), meaning you will get 1.5-2 gallons out of the mash. Sparge with however much water needed to get to your target pre-boil volume (determined by experience--hopefully you have this figured out). I like Brad's suggestion to split your sparge in half and do two batch sparges (drain the mash, add half the sparge, drain, add the other half, drain).

If you miscalculate and come up with too much volume pre-boil (you are measuring this right?), you can boil longer; if too little, you can simply sparge a little more. I know you say you are not worried about the volume, but gravity is a ratio of sugars to volumes; if either changes, then the gravity changes.

[turkeyjerky214]

The first step in computing water volumes is to pick a grist ratio. If you go with 1.25 qts/lb, you get the 11.25 qts. At 1.33 qts/lb, you get the 12L. Either is fine, but it will help you dial in your system if you pick one and stick with it. I would omit the additional infusion for the mashout step.

I'm a little confused by this. What do you mean, pick a grist ratio? Wouldn't that a be some sort of constant?

If you miscalculate and come up with too much volume pre-boil (you are measuring this right?), you can boil longer; if too little, you can simply sparge a little more.

In the past, I just collected all I could get and assumed my water amounts were right. Today, I'm measuring everything as exact as I can get it.


Edit:
I've been reading a few places online that it's best to add the coriander and orange at flameout or even in secondary as opposed to during the boil.

Opinions?

[bmock]

I'm a little confused by this. What do you mean, pick a grist ratio? Wouldn't that a be some sort of constant?

This is determining how thick you want your mash to be based on ratio of water to grain. Some go with a thick mash (1 qt. water per 1 lb. grain) while others go with a thinner mash (1.33 qt water per 1 lb. grain). That were you see that 1, 1.25, 1.33, etc. It's the ratio.

I personally go with 1.33.

[beermikester]

I've been reading a few places online that it's best to add the coriander and orange at flameout or even in secondary as opposed to during the boil.

Opinions?

I agree with this philosophy. If it is in the boil too long, it tends to lose a lot of its flavor. I usually do mine with 5 min or so left in the boil.

[Bob Brews]

Your mash dilution is something that you usually keep fairly constant with your brewing system. Yes, on some beers you will vary it, but mostly brewers pick a dilution level and work from there.

Why is dilution important? If you use a thick mash (as low as .8 quarts per pound of grain) you have enzymes that have a shorter life, yet they are more mobile and have much quicker reactions. Thick mashes make more fermentable worts.

Thin mashes (a max of 2.1 quarts per pound of grain) contribute more nitrogen to the wort, make a less fermentable wort, and the reactions are slower because the enzymes need to move quite a bit more to find all the starches.

Your mash dilution is normally determined by the type of mash you are doing (decoction, infusion, step, etc). Once you determine the type of mashing you will do, pick a dilution and stick with it.

Also, if you precisely measure your grain wieght and your mash water volume and temp, you can hit your mash temperature within a degree. For example, I use a thick mash of 1 quart per pound of grain (mainly so that I can do the math in my head of how many quarts of water to measure out). I know that if I want to hit 150 degrees at this dilution, I heat the strike water to 174 degrees. So if I am using 20 pounds of grain, I measure out 20 quarts of water, heat it to 174 and then mix with the grains and I am at 150 degrees.

Hitting your temps right off the bat is so nice and keeps you from having to add hot water then cold water then hot water.

[OldTree]

I prefer "thin" mashes 1.6-2.0qt/lb, something along those lines. The only time I would go lower than that is if I am trying to cram as much grain into my mash tun as possible for a big beer. Don't be afraid of thin mashes, they work well.

Your mash thickness is going to have very little effect on fermentability. It might affect it to some very small degree, but your mash temperature is going to be THE deciding factor (along with grist composition).

Most spices you are going want to add very late in the boil (or even at flame out). If you can smell the aroma coming out of your boil, then as Pierre Celis says, "it's just for the neighbors."

Cheers,
Augie

[RobertHSmith]

Don't be afraid to over shoot your temps either. Some ice and a quick stir can bring down the temps to where you want them.

[turkeyjerky214]

Okay, so here's how it went.

Mash temp was a little high at first, but I got it down to 154º pretty quickly. I'm thinking I need to maybe only go 10º over when heating the strike water since I keep my apartment so warm instead of the usual 12º that people recommend.

Mashed 3 gallons at 154º for 60 min, vorlaufed, pulled about 1.8 gallons. The first runnings gravity was about 1.072.

Sparged 5 gallons at around 170º for 15 minutes. Pre-boil gravity was 1.043.

Here's where I *sort of* messed up. I was keeping track of how much I had pulled after sparging in my head, and I thought there was too much, so I did a 30 minute boil to get rid of some of the extra water before adding the hops and doing the regular 60 minute boil.

Once it was all done and dumped into the carboy, I'm guessing I've got around 4.75 gallons, maybe a little more.

Final gravity: 1.067


How do you guys measure how much wort there is once it's in the kettle? I have a 1 gallon pitcher that I use to measure beforehand, but once it's in there, I have no way of knowing.
I think if I had been able to do that, I would've realized my counting error and not boiled off the extra.


Basically, I think I did two things wrong on my last batch.
1. my barley crusher wasn't milling the grains as well as it should've
2. my refractometer wasn't calibrated (didn't know I was supposed to do that)


While this one didn't turn out exactly as it was supposed to, it tasted really good, and as with each brew before, I feel like I'm getting really close to knowing what the hell I'm doing.

[siwelwerd]

How do you guys measure how much wort there is once it's in the kettle? I have a 1 gallon pitcher that I use to measure beforehand, but once it's in there, I have no way of knowing.

Some people have their kettle fitted with a sight glass, whereas I use the super high-tech dipstick method. My carboys are calibrated with markings on the outside as well.