Grain Question

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Grain Question

Postby Benjamin R » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:08 am

Posted this on another forum and haven't heard back. I need some Dark Munich this weekend and Kent as kindly offered to dig into his own bin for this, but I might be able to save him the hassle. Can someone please tell me the difference between German Dark Munich and Cara Munich 120L?
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Postby JE » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:10 am

German Dark Munich is only like 8-10L...I think that is about the only difference!
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Postby BeerGuy » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:13 am

Dark German Munich is a base malt and can be used as such, in a large proportion of the grain bill. CaraMunich (no matter the lovibond rating) is a crystal malt, and should be used accordingly. The CaraMunich 120L that you mention will be far darker than any Dark German Munich malt, both in color and flavor.
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Postby JE » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:16 am

Yeah, what Sean said! That is a better way to say what I was trying to! You are definitely going to get the dark crystal malt flavors in the 120L CaraMunich...that's all about the roastiness! :D
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Postby Benjamin R » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:17 am

Got ya, so when a recipe says Caramunich what roast would they be talking about.
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Postby JE » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:19 am

What style of beer? That would really help in determining the Lovibond value of the CaraMunich that you would use.

If you are making something that is supposed to have the roasty characters, then the 120L would be great...otherwise, you will need to find a lighter CaraMunich (or Crystal) malt to use!
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Postby BeerGuy » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:24 am

Benjamin R wrote:Got ya, so when a recipe says Caramunich what roast would they be talking about.


Good question, considering there are several steps of Caramunich (usually 40, 60, 80, 120). What style of beer? What contribution is the recipe looking to achieve from the Caramunich addition (caramel flavors? color & caramel flavors? color only?).
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Postby Benjamin R » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:28 am

I'm getting together my grains for the Oktoberfest I'm doing for the festival. I did this beer last fall and it was great. However, I subbed all the adjuncts and have since misplaced my recipe. So this time around I'm trying to stick to the recipe I started with last time. Turns out I don't have near the grains I thought I did.

33.75 lbs. German 2-row Pils => CHECK
7.50 lbs. Belgian Cara-Pils => Short, but there are some in the grain bin
15.00 lbs. German Dark Munich => Got plain ole Munich
3.75 lbs. Belgian Caramunich => Got 40/60/80/120L
3.8 oz. Lublin 60 min => CHECK
3.8 oz. Lublin 45 min => CHECK
3.8 oz. Lublin 30 min => CHECK

Kent some Dark and Cara-Pils I just didn't want to buy it to learn I already had it.

EDIT: This is a 30gal recipe by the way.
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Postby HarvInSTL » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:42 am

For an O'fest I went with the 60L Caramunich
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Postby Benjamin R » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:45 am

Yeah, seems to be the popular option:

33.75 lbs. German 2-row Pils
7.50 lbs. Belgian Cara-Pils
15.00 lbs. Munich
3.75 lbs. Belgian Caramunich 60L
3.8 oz. Lublin 60 min
3.8 oz. Lublin 45 min
3.8 oz. Lublin 30 min
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Postby BeerGuy » Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:54 am

Looks well in the ballpark according to Promash. Here's what it spit out. If you are using pellet hops, it might be a touch on the hoppy side, assuming your Lublin hops are around the AA I used.


ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

03-B European Amber Lager, Oktoberfest/Maerzen

Min OG: 1.050 Max OG: 1.056
Min IBU: 20 Max IBU: 28
Min Clr: 7 Max Clr: 14 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 30.00 Wort Size (Gal): 30.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 60.00
Anticipated OG: 1.056 Plato: 13.82
Anticipated SRM: 9.2
Anticipated IBU: 26.5
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 35.29 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.048 SG 11.83 Plato

Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
56.3 33.75 lbs. Pilsener Germany 1.038 2
25.0 15.00 lbs. Munich Malt France 1.038 7
12.5 7.50 lbs. Caramel Pils Malt Belgium 1.035 6
6.3 3.75 lbs. CaraMunich 60 France 1.034 60



Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
3.80 oz. Lubelski or Lublin Whole 4.00 11.0 60 min.
3.80 oz. Lubelski or Lublin Whole 4.00 9.9 45 min.
3.80 oz. Lubelski or Lublin Whole 4.00 5.6 30 min.


Yeast
-----

White Labs WLP820 Octoberfest - Marzen
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Postby ericburnley » Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:20 pm

What yeast were you planning on using, Ben?
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Postby Benjamin R » Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:33 pm

Whelp, I'm not going to be able to lager 30 gals so I'm opting for the pseudo-oktoberfest ale route and using #2107:

Choose a German ale yeast. British ale yeasts are unsuitable because of their complex esters and, in some strains, diacetyl production. The same characteristics that are great in a pale ale are undesirable in an Oktoberfest. David Logsdon recommends his strains #1007 and #2107.

"#1007 is a Dusseldorf-type alt yeast. It's very clean and highly attenuating and makes a big, clean beer. Maybe it brings out the hops a bit too much for Oktoberfest, but overall it's very nice. We have a Klsch yeast, #2107, that produces a more lagerlike character than any other ale yeast I know. It's highly attenuating, and flocculation is good. Ester production is extremely low, even in high-gravity beers, and there is actually some sulfur production. It gives a very rich malt character. It's a very unusual ale yeast and recommended for this style."


Source: http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue1.2/bergen.html
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Postby ericburnley » Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:42 pm

While I haven't used it myself, I've read tons of good things about 1007. Kind of like a German-flavored 1056. Haven't read much about 2107, though, so i'm still no help there.

I did look at that link, though, and the next yeast they mention (1338, European ale yeast) i have used, and like a lot. It doesn't attenuate down as much as something like the 1007 would, though. All depends on what kind of beer you want to make - you probably don't want to mess with changing your recipe at this point.
Last edited by ericburnley on Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Benjamin R » Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:46 pm

This might be a good time to mention I have a 2107 starter from a past brew. I'm going to restart it tonight and make sure its still viable, but the color looks fine
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