Hoegaarden Recipe substitution

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Hoegaarden Recipe substitution

Postby andyK » Sat Feb 28, 2009 1:04 pm

I am working on a 10 gal hoegaarden clone and came across this recipe on BeerTools. A lot of other recipes called for belgian pils and I was wondering if I can use the 2-row(its what I have). Also noticed that many other call for flaked wheat instead of the large bill of wheat malt. I would like to use the wheat malt that I have but am willing add a bit of raw if it will make a noticable difference. Any thoughts? Here's a link...
http://www.beertools.com/html/recipe.ph ... u=us&fv=10

8.42 lbs. American 2-row
8.42 lbs. Midwest Wheat Malt
2.1 oz. Hallertau (Pellets, 4.50 %AA) boiled 60 min.
0.5 oz. Hallertau (Pellets, 4.50 %AA) boiled 15 min.
0.5 oz. Hallertau (Pellets, 4.50 %AA) boiled 1 min.
1.58 ounces Bitter orange peel
1.05 ounces Corriander seed %28crushed%29
Yeast : White Labs Belgian White
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Postby bacillus » Sat Feb 28, 2009 2:02 pm

I brewed a wit using mostly 2 row and some flaked and it turned out pretty darn good. Still couldn't get over the intense sulfur smell during fermentation though, strange!
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Postby MIKEW » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:09 am

I have been playing around with wits/wheats a lot lately. My preference on the wheat is for half of it to be malted and half raw, with wheat being 50% of the total grain bill. Not sure how the final product compares with hoegaarden, but there is definitely a difference between raw and unmalted. The raw wheat seems to have a lot more tart character to it.
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Postby bacillus » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:15 am

In addition, with that much raw wheat you may want to consider doing a cereal mash. Of course you could try to use some "Super pils" with the diastatic power to convert the wheat to usable sugars.

There is a post around here somewhere that discusses a cereal mash in more detail but basically you removed a large portion of the mash and boil it to help breakdown the starches in the unmalted wheat. You add this back to your main mash and complete the mash process. You will have to calculate temps etc yourself but basically, do a protein rest ~128, remove and boil and when you add back it comes to around 148-150 deg.
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Postby Michael » Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:26 am

I have not done a Wit in many years. However, the last on turned out very well using raw wheat and pils malt. The hardest part is milling the wheat -- here's where a Corona Mill would be of use. I did not do a cereal mash. I do not feel that it's needed since you do want a pale haze in your final product. My $.02 FWIW.

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Postby bacillus » Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:38 am

This is true and with the right mix of pils and wheat you should be good to go without the cereal mash.
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Postby OldTree » Mon Mar 02, 2009 12:23 pm

I would definitely recommend against this current train of thought. By not doing a cereal mash or maybe a turbid mash, you are going to get very little fermentable extract out of the wheat. This makes using the wheat close to pointless and a pain in the ass. You would be better off using an all pilsner grain bill and throwing a tablespoon of flour into the boil.

If you want to avoid a turbid or cereal mash, then you should probably use flaked wheat. Also, in Radical Brewing Mosher claims that by using around 70% malted wheat you get an effect similar to using the unmalted wheat.

Cheers,
Augie

(Even the turbid mash is fairly poor at converting the sugars, but it is a traditional process used)
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Postby MIKEW » Mon Mar 02, 2009 1:28 pm

I seem to have had pretty good luck using 25% raw wheat in a recipe without a cereal mash. I think I have also done 45% in the past.

The gelatinization temp of wheat according to the internets is 52-64C which is about 125-148F, so I see a cereal mash as being unnecessary work assuming you are mashing above those temps, although it might be a good idea to mash a bit longer to allow for the gelatanization to occur before conversion.

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Postby OldTree » Mon Mar 02, 2009 3:15 pm

Hmmm...I appear to be incorrect then. Infusion mash away! I really think the cereal mash gives you an amount of insurance that you did get complete gelatinization though. I might have to give this a try...

Augie
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Postby fastglass95 » Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:41 pm

bacillus wrote:In addition, with that much raw wheat you may want to consider doing a cereal mash.


Raw wheat "gelitanizes" at a low temperature, like normal infusion mash temps of 150deg., so NO cereal mash is required for raw wheat , just add it to the mash with the rest of the grain.

The extra diastatic power of "Super Pils" may help convert it, but at only 25% it should not be a problem.
-Tom
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Postby Konertjm » Wed Mar 04, 2009 9:33 am

I currently have a Wit on tap. The grain bill was 50% raw wheat and 50% German Pils. I triple crushed the raw wheat. No change in mill settings, ran it through twice by itself. Then added to Pils and ran it through again.
Protein rest at 125* for 30 then up to 151 for 60 minutes.
Hit all my numbers, I had only half the required bitter orange and all of the coriander. Tastes great, orange is subdued, corriander does not overwhelm.
Flaked wheat would certainly be easier to work with, but I already had 10 lbs of Illinois soft red wheat. :)
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Postby bacillus » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:32 am

Konertjm wrote:I currently have a Wit on tap. The grain bill was 50% raw wheat and 50% German Pils. I triple crushed the raw wheat. No change in mill settings, ran it through twice by itself. Then added to Pils and ran it through again.
Protein rest at 125* for 30 then up to 151 for 60 minutes.
Hit all my numbers, I had only half the required bitter orange and all of the coriander. Tastes great, orange is subdued, corriander does not overwhelm.
Flaked wheat would certainly be easier to work with, but I already had 10 lbs of Illinois soft red wheat. :)


I have a bunch of red wheat too. Can you post the recipe?
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